RE: Itasca Navion IQ 24DL
I wish they'd have kept the 24B with bunk beds at the back.
There's a new View 24P model which has the back bunk beds AND a slideout.
Prefer the sofa and table layout i the 24B to the P. Tx Don
RE: Video for entertainment
We know this won't help our situation...just a way of venting.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HKxpkHWf7M)
The point is that what you are directing attention to here absolutely requires it. Too many manufacturers have gone way beyond when it comes to the sealing of seams. They do a crappy job slapping the RV together and then expect us to find the problems and fix them.
These days one has to be a carpenter, electrician and mechanic - which is simply dumb and is going to come back to bite the manufacturers, if they are still alive after this economic mess.
As to the Scepter problem described in a neighbouring video, one comment above seems to imply that video was part of your presentation. If that is what they thought, they missed the boat.
In the Scepter video the owner provides a lot of good evidence for buyers to avoid Monaco products. In the fall of 2005 we bought an HR Ambassador after having a terrible experience with lack of quality in a 2004 Winnebago Journey. On the way to Florida we dropped in to Monaco's Wildwood repair facility for a consultation on a number of the problems. We were there on Nov 1/05 and the next available appointment was March 06. One of the things we observed was the we were in a minority - we had a less expensive MH (list was only $250K+ in Canada) and most of the hardware lined up to be fixed was much more expensive than ours (Imperials, Scepters, Navigators, Dynastys, Signatures, etc). We talked to some of the owners and concluded the facility should be renamed Camp Misery.
The HR had fewer serious problems than the Journey but neither were really that great on quality. Both spent months at the dealer being fixed slowly. When I suggested to the Monaco service rep that the warranty should be extended (how else can one identify problems other than by using it - and if you can't use it because it is at the dealer....) he virtually laughed in my face.
I wonder if Thor will take up and do something about the design and build quality of the Four Winds products?
BTW, on one of the occasions the Journey was in for warranty work I requested they check the caulking on the roof (which I'd have to pay for). When we picked up the MH we were told that since they had found the sealant coming off around the skylight over the shower they were able to do do the recaulking under the warranty and we were not charged for the inspection.
RE: 1993 Kodiak Journey
Hello all, I,ve been in the market for a diesel powered RV for a while and found a 1993 Kodiak Journey it has 160K miles and has a 250HP CAT 3116 6.6L 6 spd allison. The RV will be used for towing a 28'tripple axle car trailer close to 10000k lbs. My questions are can this unit handle this load are ther any problem area's to look at, and what fuel mileage can I expect. Thanks Robbie
The only place I've ever seen units of that nature is at race tracks. I think they were "born" to tow and if you check the GCWR I think you will find it can handle 10k lbs (at least I'd be surprised if it couldn't). I think the GVWR of such units is not that high though - 19k lbs. Only thing one can say is check the specs carefully.
RE: Interesting development - Shortage of used Class "A"s??
This is an interesting topic. We have been looking and evaluating 2005-2006 Class A’s for the last year or so. We are almost ready to buy. But, what I have noticed is that there may be a sizeable quantity of Class A’s in the marketplace the prices shown on RV Trader etc are in most cases higher than NADA average retail. I have been told that in the current market I should offer around 70% of NADA low retail and go no higher than 90% of low retail.
It seems as if there are too many owners that are upside down in their loans. That being said, I suppose the ones that are upside down will continue to make their monthly payments and pray to god a sucker comes along or if times get to bad give it back to the bank.
A lot of talk on here about good deals, but I sure haven’t seen that many.
I have seen a lot of very nice dealer prices in Canada. The reason may be credit practices. We don't get 20 year loans on motorhomes as a rule. No lenders have been giving buyers almost full price so that they are upside down when they drive off the lot (unless the buyer has a lot of other assets the lender can get it hands on quickly). We can't deduct mortgage interest and many US buyers do treat the loans as loans on homes and deduct the interest when completing tax returns.
I was browsing RV Trader the other day and noticed that a lot of the asking prices were absurd and it must be the fact that sellers would like to get enough to pay off what they owe on the unit.
RE: Fleetwood stock at $0.74--any one worried they may go under?
Can Warren Buffet buy up the entire industry?
Warren Buffet rarely buys any company that produces products that people want. He usually sticks with companys who produce product that people need.
You realize, of course, the he controls Forest River?
RE: Goodyear G670's whats your experience?
I too have noticed little air leakage from these tires. My car tires leak more than these.
Likewise. I carry a Husky compressor and I'm wondering if it is necessary. Our Journey which had the XRVs needed air regularly - even when sitting in FLA for 5.5 months. Our MH had a compressor and hose (many DPs have them) but it is necessary to fire up the engine. CAT advised us to turn it off and leave it off for the 5.5 months - thus the Husky.
The following year we'd replaced the Journey with an Ambassador with the GY's and it didn't need even one psi added. Now, same thing with our Jacyo - rarely have to add air (only for temperature declines in the fall really).
I think Michelin would have been wise to dump the XRV model tire (or at least the name). Even though they always tried to blame the MH owner by claiming overload or underinflation, that got very tiring since that was not the case with many on the forum who check their pressures religiously. I got the feeling they were admitting to a problem when they raised the inflation pressures in the table. If I'd kept the Journey long enough to reach replacement time I probably would have put on a higher grade MIchelin. One think I didn't like with the Journey was that the maximum load for the two front tires was identical to the GAWR for the front. No reserve at all (other than the safety factor built in by Michelin - and they won't even mention what that is).
RE: Reply from Four Winds on body issue
We part company on this one completely my friend. Given the mileage an ethical dealer WOULD make it very clear that there was no warranty. A shyster dealer would not. IMO the purchase price with and without a warranty would be significantly different. Most MHs have MORE than 300 miles on them when they arrive at the dealer. As I stated earlier, I can't imagine buying a Thor product given the frequency of problems I've read about and heard about from owners.
Your belief seems to be that it is the goal of the dealer to take the buyer for all they can. Maybe most are like that, and if that is the case none of them deserve to survive the turmoil we are seeing.
Well, I agree they have a moral duty to make sure the purchaser understands the warranty issue, especially on a transaction like this one, but they have no obligation to do so.
There is simply no excuse for a purchaser of ANY used vehicle to not be absolutely certain of what warranty they do and do not have. It's part of the responsibility of making such a purchase.
I do think that a dealer/manufacturer really should have a warranty on such a nearly-new vehicle, but neither is under any obligation to do so.
One simply must understand what one is getting into, and not rely on someone else to tell you that. The dealer's job is to sell, and the buyer's to understand what they are buying.
A good dealer will really care about their customers and really want satisfied customers to get repeat business. However, not all, or even most, perhaps, dealers are like this which is why buyers must take responsibility for understanding things like what warranty exists.
You are making far too many assumptions about the intelligence of dealers and salespeople. If you search back a few years you will find the "fun" I had with respect to the Allison warranty on my Journey. The printed material in the bag (I checked ALL the warranties before purchasing) in the MH said 5 years. Allison claimed it was 2 years (the TranSynd converion problem). It took a lot of my time but I got it back to 5 years where it legally should have been and IMO was to start with. That taught me a lesson - virtually no one understood the problem when I raised it, but when I got through they all did - Freightliner, Winnie and Allison. The dealers? Clueless.
RE: Reply from Four Winds on body issue
The troublesome thing here is that the MH only had 300 miles on it when they bought it. To me that means someone hardly got it off the lot before trading. Does that smack you as a vehicle that should now have no warranty? It confirms to me that Thor is not a MH manufacturer I'd even think of giving my money.
Should have a warranty? Maybe so. Does have a warranty. Clearly not.
It is the buyer's responsibility to check that the original warranty will survive a change in ownership. It is a very sad situation, certainly, but the buyer failed to ensure he actually had warranty coverage and, as it turns out, he did not have any warranty.
It would be a whole different conversation if there was any indication that the dealer misrepresented the situation and told the original poster that he had warranty coverage, but there is no indication that this happened, nor is there any obligation on the dealer's part to ensure that the new owner is aware that there is no warranty coverage - it is the new owner's responsibility to check on this before finalizing the purchase. I am very, very sorry that he did not think of doing this but, at this point, there is on real recourse for him.
It's a sad situation, but the responsibility for buying a vehicle without any warranty lies on the shoulders of the buyer. Any time one buys something used, it is sold "as is" unless there are clear terms to the contrary.
If this happened to me would I be upset? Sure I would. Would I try to get the manufacturer to help me out? Certainly. But, in the end, I'd have to accept it as an expensive life lesson and move on.
We part company on this one completely my friend. Given the mileage an ethical dealer WOULD make it very clear that there was no warranty. A shyster dealer would not. IMO the purchase price with and without a warranty would be significantly different. Most MHs have MORE than 300 miles on them when they arrive at the dealer. As I stated earlier, I can't imagine buying a Thor product given the frequency of problems I've read about and heard about from owners.
Your belief seems to be that it is the goal of the dealer to take the buyer for all they can. Maybe most are like that, and if that is the case none of them deserve to survive the turmoil we are seeing.
RE: Goodyear G670's whats your experience?
Had XRVs on my Journey and they were awful. Had the GYs on my Ambassador and they were much better. Generally I think the Michelin's are superior to GY, but not the XRVs. Freightliner at one time provided its chassis with only Michelins. Then, after so many reports of problems they had to make the GY's an option and when we were at the factory at Gaffney in April 2005 a lot were being fitted with GY's.
Have GYs on my Jayco now and so far so good.
I'd take Michelins again - but NOT the XRVs.
RE: C on a GMC Topkick With DuraMax 5500?
Those 2 have CATs not Duramax.
Current production uses the TopKick's brother with a Chevy label - the Kodiak C5500 - and they are made by several MH manufacturers. We have many owners of Kodiaks with Duramax on our Yahoo forum. (see sig below).
RE: Reply from Four Winds on body issue
You have already convinced us the Mfg needs to take care of this problem...
Really? Not me. I'm convinced that the problem needs to be corrected, but also that the unit is not under warranty, so it would be a purely goodwill gesture for the manufacturer to repair this at no cost.
When buying used (any product, really), it is the buyer's responsibility to check on all warranties to see what coverage may still exist and what may have lapsed due to change in ownership. Some warranties are transferable, some are not.
For example, certain items purchased for a house may have "lifetime warranties," but that means the lifetime of the original purchaser only if not specified to be transferable, not the "lifetime" of the house.
This whole situation is the archetypal example of "caveat emptor", or "let the buyer beware."
That's the harsh reality here.
The troublesome thing here is that the MH only had 300 miles on it when they bought it. To me that means someone hardly got it off the lot before trading. Does that smack you as a vehicle that should now have no warranty? It confirms to me that Thor is not a MH manufacturer I'd even think of giving my money.
RE: Fleetwood stock at $0.74--any one worried they may go under?
Can Warren Buffet buy up the entire industry?
Only if he wants too.
With Fleetwood down at 55 cents now and Monaco at $1.45, he could buy a huge slice of the industry to add to FR without spending a lot.
RE: Fleetwood stock at $0.74--any one worried they may go under?
Fleetwood trading has been halted. Will be interesting to see what happens in the morning.
Monaco is also down - from a high of about $14 in the past year to $1.45. Is that a buying op or can it disappear.
Winnie is down to $10 from $30 earlier this year.
Can Warren Buffet buy up the entire industry? :)
RE: Camping World RV Sales talking the talk...
If the volume discounts of the auto manufacturers are still structured like they were years ago when I did a lot of dealer audits, then they can run into problems. Years ago they had (if memory is working right) and A to E volume rebate structure. "A" was the lowest volume and lowest rebate while "E" was the highest. In determining their "cost" dealers had to anticipate their annual volume. When a GM strike occurred I can remember dealers who were costing our a E for the year finding they couldn't even make C because of a lack of product. That really smarted.
In the RV biz now, I think constraints on discounts are not going to be a problem at all. I've seen dealers with NEW 2007 models and NO ONE in their right mind will pay dealer cost. If the factories are not giving rebates on those models how the H can they insist they have to be sold for more than fair market value? They can't. In this environment they are no doubt pleased to see as many sales as possible regardless of the size of the discount. In any event, when you trade, who know the "real" value of the trade - especially in this market.
RE: Interesting development - Shortage of used Class "A"s??
Fuel costs are irrelevant, period.
Even at $10 a gallon, people will still travel by RV. There may be less going to Alaska from Alabama, but there will be plenty going shorter distances.
When you simply consider the costs of everything else, fuel is the least cost involved with traveling by coach. The problem is absolutely psychological, not financial.
Those that actually can think for themselves will realize this, those that can't will miss out on the joys of traveling by RV. Their loss.
Dreamer. :(
RE: Interesting development - Shortage of used Class "A"s??
Wishful thinking....those who can afford to own and operate a Class A will not want to settle for a used unit, they will want a brand new unit. The average baby boomer will settle for a park model at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost and drive Toyotas and Hondas to get to the unit. IMHO
We bought a park model two years ago - and then downsized. We believed it was a good decision at the time and are even happier with it now. As you suggested, I can see that being a real alternative. Frankly, far more value per dollar in the park model and fewer headaches (like almost none).
RE: Contact with Gulf Stream??
A 2008 with a rotten floor. What a shame. I hope you get complete resolution.....and quickly.
Your story is one of many I read, that continues to support our decision not to get a slide-out for our RV.
Hmmm. If you read reports on fridge problems I guess you'd get one without a fridge. :)
And if you read about air conditioner problems, well, you wouldn't get one of them either.
Gee, soon you'd find you wouldn't even buy a MH. It would not surprise me if a lot of people have reached that conclusion. :(
There are very few, if any, that we'd consider buying without a slide (or at least two).
RE: Reply from Four Winds on body issue
Really, I don't recall many (well, any) who restricted the warranty. Just about every vehicle we've owned has had a warranty that went with the vehicle for the term specified.
My Jeep can only be transfered to the second owner, and requires a fee and paper work. Maybe I'm just older, but I remember when I was first able to drive that it was common for the warrenty to only apply to the first owner, and was for 12 months.
Yes, that 12k and limited transfer was back in the dark ages. :)
Many of the purchased extended warranties are transferable to another owner but not if traded in - then you get a credit (which we've obtained) or they (in the case of GM) moved it to the next vehicle calling it a loyalty credit, or it evaporates. We found many can go to the next owner but if it goes through the dealer it is lost.
We've had two extended warranties on MHs terminated early when we traded them and in both cases got full pro-rata refunds.
Some of the manufacturer special extended warranties on power trains are reduced to a lesser amount when sold, but anything remaining on the lesser amount is transferable.
For $50 or $100 it is usually worth doing unless the amount left in time or distance is trivial.
MHs are, of course, a different game completely. Newmar went up to 3 years and now back at 1 year. Our Jayco has two years on it - both box and chassis. Our Journey and Ambassador were both one year and given the amount of time they sat at the dealer we thought the warranty should be extended 3 months. The Monaco guy laughed in my face when I suggested it. I've often wondered how an auto manufacturer would react to a request for an extension if your car was in repair and not available for use for 3 months? My guess is that they'd extend the warranty. Of course, many provide replacement cars so it is a non issue. The last time one of our cars was out of commission for 3 days (a sensor in the air suspension on a Silhouette stopped working and it pumped right to the extreme) they offered to provide a replacement. Since we have 2 vehicles we declined. Ironically the same thing happened on a Montana a few years earlier and we were on I-75 near Corbin. GM put us up in the Holiday in for the weekend and paid for the room and meals. I wonder how often that happens with MHs. We are taking our Jayco in to the factory for some paint work shortly and since we can't stay in the MH overnight Jayco has booked and is paying for a hotel room for us. That was a pleasant surprise and certainly customer friendly.
